Author Topic: Wagenswest lift kit  (Read 1075 times)

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Offline Brenticon

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Wagenswest lift kit
« on: May 01, 2017, 12:37:57 PM »
I just installed my new lift for my bay and man, does it look mean.
Problem is, nothing is really listed on what needs to be done. I figured it would be a simple bolt on project. Turns out that your rear shocks are too short, axles with spacer se too increase angle of operation, and cv's bind up.
I bought new longer axles and off road bus cv's and longer gas shocks and now the ride is almost perfect, except for the cv's still make noise. As long as you are on the gas and have them loaded, they work great, but as soon as you let off the gas and unload them you get noise.

Anybody ?????

Offline BUSDADDY

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2017, 04:42:40 PM »
That looks badass!

From the sounds of it you haven't seen this: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=270489 , or this: http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=99299
RUST NEVER SLEEPS

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2017, 09:40:35 PM »
I finished reading thesamba one today. 69 pages of tires, bumpers and head light covers, lol.
When it came to specs, a few mentions of thing cv's, off road bus cv's, and of course, 360 cv conversions. Oh ya, those awesome racing axles. Seems though one fella with the orange bus, did the swapbwith no modifications. Guess I better tear it apart,  have a look, and  start from scratch.

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2017, 09:42:46 PM »
.... and oh ya, "Thanks" for the compliment

Offline 52 split

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2017, 10:30:22 PM »
take the noisy  side off and see if the clip has come off.

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2017, 08:46:15 AM »
Will do ...

Offline pittwagen

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2017, 04:43:12 PM »
Have you solved the problem?  If not a couple of questions and a couple of ideas.

What do you mean by off road bus cv's?  Thing, 930 Porsche?  Something else?

How much longer are the axles than stock?

What is the inclination angle of the axles?  Bus cv's can go to 17 deg., Thing to 22 and 930 to 25 or so. Maybe a bit more.  Too much angle and you will get the noise you describe.  Get on the gas and the bus will squat thus reducing the angle of the axle.

If you remove the boots and housings and pull them back down the axle and then retighten the cv's to the hub and flange, are the inner (ball hub) and outer ring running more or less parallel or is the hub way in or out?  Seems to me you want to have the balls running more or less in the center of the unit with the hub more or less flush with the outer ring unit.  It is supposed to move but the starting point should not be at the extremes.

Perhaps you did all of this when you set things up.  My thoughts.  Maybe others will comment.

Offline HaggardRob

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 07:51:32 AM »
Any links to all the stuff you bought? I am planning on a similar look for my westy, and thanks for the heads up about the shocks and CV's!

Very cool bus  :rockon:

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 09:26:56 AM »
Update ....

I went with 944 cv's. Tried two on one axle first. Clacking definately subsided. Installed the other two and all noises basically disappeared. I'm still getting a bit of clacking and I'm now thinking it might have something to do with suspension. I'm going to check swing arm lengths etc.

Now to answer questions, 944's are basically Thing cv's. Your correct in angulation. I purchased an Empi axle/cv kit that came with off road bus cv's which are suppose to max out at 25 degrees . The axles are 20 1/4 inches. It was recommended by a guy in Texas that installed the same kit. The cv's are very loose and I'm guessing they are off road racing , cause as soon as you unloaded them, the clacked. I'm guessing racing they would be loaded most of the time.   

As for links,
 http://www.wagenswest.com/partstore/index.php/bus-suspension/1968-79-bay-bus-2-5-lifted-ball-joint-spindles.html
http://www.wagenswest.com/partstore/index.php/1968-79-vw-bus-rear-lift-plates-2-5-inch.html
I sourced out cv's and axles.
I ordered these
https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D16%2D2234
but I'd advise just finding axles and getting Porsche 944 cv's.
I running 215/75R15 BFG's.

A note. 930 cv swap means hubs and axles as well as (from what I read) grinding at axles to get them to fit. I believe stock is 100 mm and 930 is 108 mm. Also need rear shocks. I found thru researching Monroe that there was a couple gas shocks that work great. I believe they are for Ford F-150. Stocks won't extend and keep suspension short

Offline HaggardRob

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2017, 08:13:23 AM »
Perfect, thanks for the info! I'm still a ways away from being back on the road (doing bodywork right now) but this will be a great reference when the time comes :D

Offline silas

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2017, 10:14:05 PM »
nice work and a cool looking lifted bay window westy...offroad camping machine!!


Offline pittwagen

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2017, 11:03:37 PM »
Forgot to ask but what gearing are you running to compensate for the taller tires?

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2017, 08:11:13 AM »
Thanks Silas. Its actually a Wiviera, lol.

As for gearing, stock 6 rib with 2L fi.
Not too much difference but I do seem to run at lower rpm at hwy speeds.

Offline Jeremy59

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2017, 09:26:52 AM »
Good looking ride.

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2017, 10:32:40 AM »
Did a lil face lift

Offline Hansk

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2017, 07:37:33 PM »
 :13: :13:
Big fat black fastback

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2017, 12:42:24 AM »
@pittwagen
If you remove the boots and housings and pull them back down the axle and then retighten the cv's to the hub and flange, are the inner (ball hub) and outer ring running more or less parallel or is the hub way in or out?  Seems to me you want to have the balls running more or less in the center of the unit with the hub more or less flush with the outer ring unit.  It is supposed to move but the starting point should not be at the extremes

In theory that makes sense, but I haven't tried it as I have plenty of play in my axles. Saying this, I can't see it pulling the centre cage inwards and out of line with cv outer.
I pulled complete axle setup, checked and regreased and installed opposite and it seemed noisier, so I put back to normal. I know what side, I'm guessing its the outer, but not sure, that side is about a half inch higher, but pretty sure it's not over angulation, so I'm gonna get it on an alignment rack and check to make sure things measure up proper. Can't really see anything visually, might as well see if the lasers and computers tell me anything ....
oh the joys of modifications

Offline pittwagen

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2017, 07:47:25 AM »
Just get your van to a spot that is as level as possible and then measure the angle of the axles.  If you are not using the Thing/944 cv's and running more than 17deg., that may be your problem.  On my buggy I run the Thing cv's right at 17deg and there is no noise.  The Thing cv's get their added articulation with the use of smaller balls compared to the bus ones.  I have seen and heard of plenty of stories of the bus cv's binding with too much angle.  Load em up and the angle decreases and the noise goes away. 

You may also want to pose your problem to the folks on the Samba off road forum.

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2017, 08:26:20 AM »
Yes, I have 944's, and did measure them a while back on flat ground .... 16-18 degrees I believe.
Read a tonne of stuff in the off road buds areas and some in off road. Posted in one of the bus links but no reply.
Guess going into off road might be an idea as this bus stuff seems fairly new.
Thanks

Offline pittwagen

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2017, 09:14:37 AM »
Well through a process of elimination, you have 944 cvs' running at 16-18 deg. therefore the only other variable is the axle length.  Stock length is 18.75 in and you are running 20.25 and there appears to be one other option at 19.25.  Odd thing is if there was a binding issue with the extra long axles, I would expect to be with the axle on the side that is sitting lower.  Wonder what articulation the guy in Texas was running?  Oh and one other thing, cv's when new should be very tight, not loose.  I did my bus a while back and the Lobro cv's were tight.

Offline pittwagen

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2017, 02:45:32 PM »
Just one other thought.  Did you reset your torsion bars, and if so, do the spring plates ride on the stops when the bus is sitting?

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2017, 04:44:02 PM »
Lobro cv's, nice and tight, no to setting torsional, as they are sitting perfectly in between stops.
Got it aligned and 99% clickity stopped. 3 days later, it's slowly coming back.
I think next option is to pull lift and oblong holes bigger.
Pretty happy now, it's not perfect, but way better than before.
Might have to get to the mainland and have it looked at there.
Till then, "Camping Time!"

Offline pittwagen

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2017, 06:24:10 PM »
I should have mentioned this sooner or at least more directly.  If one side sits higher and that is the side the noise is coming from,  the angle of the axle is beyond the capability of the cv's.  You likely need to make a slight adjustment to the torsion bar.

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2017, 08:26:05 AM »
When I measured angles, they seemed to be well within angulation.
Thinkin I may take it into a shop and have sone new eyes on it

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #24 on: June 14, 2017, 03:58:39 PM »
ps: appreciate your input pittwagen

Offline pittwagen

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2017, 07:24:26 PM »
Thanks.  We are all trying to learn along with you.  I have thought about this mod too.  I wonder what happens to a cv when the articulation increases in 2 directions.  I re-read the brochure.   We need to search the off road forum to see if that poses any added issues.  I have seen plenty of rails with the axles down and back. 

Offline Brenticon

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Re: Wagenswest lift kit
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2017, 10:59:22 AM »
I'm thinking adjustable swing arms, reaming outoblong holes for more adjusting and making sure Bus is level. Talking with a fellow, he mentioned not just angle from tranny to axle is measured, but it's also moved back slightly which effect articulation. I'm pretty happy now, but bring a bus driver, my ears over hear everything
I'll keep ya posted

 

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