MSD Timing?

[jason_hamilton]

After 20+ years of stock motors I have finally acquired a 2161 w/Webers (thanks Stephan!). Now that I'm old enough to be responsible with the power...
Engine's all in and turns over without anything exploding, so now all that's left is to set the timing. I'm used to the max advance setup on the 009, but this is a full MSD system with a 6AL, Blaster 2 and Pro Billet dstributor. No weights or springs were supplied with the dizzy, but from what I'm told the curve is well matched to this motor for street use. What do I set the timing to? and do I do it at idle or full advance?
Also, the distributor has a degree of surface corrosion inside on the steel parts. Is this common and will this negatively affect performance?

[Chris]

msd dizzys commonly rust, best to keep a spare rotor in your glove box

[Bruce]

My recommendation is to take all that MSD crap off and use the 009 that you're familiar with.

[Chris E.]

My recommendation is to take all that MSD crap off and use the 009 that you're familiar with.

[Jeremy]

My recommendation is to take all that MSD crap off and use the 009 that you're familiar with.

How about an explanation Bruce. I thought MSD's were the shit.

[Bruce]

It's shit alright.

What kind of problem are you trying to solve with all that junk?  

Dannyboy was making good money a while back buying up bad MSD boxes, then sending them in for the free warranty repair, then selling them.  The fact that he could buy them so easily should tell you something.
Mysterious
Spark
Disappearance

A few years ago I was helping a guy out trying to get his car to run right.  It wouldn't rev cleanly past 3500 rpm.  He had a MSD with an 009.  For a while I thought it might have something to do with the main cct of the carbs.  But then we completely removed the MSD and the engine would RIP to 6500.

From a GM executive:
"Parts left out cost nothing and cause no service problems".

Now if you are a competitive drag racer and you absolutely must have a 2 stage rev limiter, the MSD is some benefit.  I only know of maybe 3 or 4 VW racers locally that fit that need.  If you just have a street car that you take to the track once in a while, you don't need that crap.

If you must have a rev limiter, you can get a genuine Bosch rev limiting rotor that fits your 009.

[jason_hamilton]

Well, I just assumed that since the MSD components were all color-matched and it came with a window sticker, it'd be good for an extra 25 hp at least...

Seriously, it all came included with the motor so I installed it. My trusty old 009 was on the first VW I bought in '89 and the same unit's been with me ever since. If this newfangled gubbins gives me any trouble whatsoever I'll turn it into an ashtray and re-install old faithfull. I don't mind looking like a Luddite if it keeps me on the road.

[jim martin]

if there is no weights or springs in the distributer i would have to think the previous owner modified the dist and ran it locked out .
you better take a picture with the rotor removed .
if it is modified you will need to convert it back with a weight and spring kit

[jason_hamilton]

My post wasn't worded the best perhaps. The distributor has springs and weights installed - it just didn't come with any extras to customize the curve.

[Chris]

just give me the msd.

[jim martin]

My post wasn't worded the best perhaps. The distributor has springs and weights installed - it just didn't come with any extras to customize the curve.

well that changes everthing .

this is what i would do , fire the car up and set the timing at idle to 0 then slowly bring the rpm up until there is no advance , if you dont have a timing light with a rpm reading get a friend with a good foot in the car ,bring the car up to about 4000 rpm and jot down the advance .you now know thw total mechanical advance set in the dist . advance tune will be then bring back to idle , then every 1000 rpm up to 4000 rpm write down the advance # . you will now be able to plot your advance curve.
set your max timing to 30 deg at 4000 rpm and then let it drop back to idle .without knowing the total advance adjusted in the unit i would think you would be around 8-10 deg .drive it and listen for pinging ,then you can retard the timing a deg at a time or change your advance curve if it pings at a specific rpm

[Jord63]

You can buy a kit from MSD that has all the replacement springs and advance stops. The part number is 8464 and Lordco had it in stock last time I needed them. The weights are available as well, part number 8628. I have had this distributor, msd al6 box and coil in my car for 12 years and never had a problem with it.

[Jerome]

msd al6 box and coil in my car for 12 years and never had a problem with it.

I had the same kit in my '74 260Z and it really smartened the car up. Ran worlds better in colder spring/fall morning start ups too.

[neil68]

After 20+ years of stock motors I have finally acquired a 2161 w/Webers (thanks Stephan!). Now that I'm old enough to be responsible with the power...
Engine's all in and turns over without anything exploding, so now all that's left is to set the timing. I'm used to the max advance setup on the 009, but this is a full MSD system with a 6AL, Blaster 2 and Pro Billet dstributor. No weights or springs were supplied with the dizzy, but from what I'm told the curve is well matched to this motor for street use. What do I set the timing to? and do I do it at idle or full advance?
Also, the distributor has a degree of surface corrosion inside on the steel parts. Is this common and will this negatively affect performance?

I've been running an MSD distributor, 6AL, Blaster 2 and 8.5 mm MSD wires for several years in my Beetle.  I've experimented with the coloured springs and have ended up with 34-36 degrees total advance as being the best...however, I'm at 1,000 m. elevation.  I like having the rev limiter pills when racing at the track and also found better idle and transition in colder weather...very smooth.

The MSD website has a forum, where a few VW Beetle drivers have posted their combos, so that might give you some ideas.  Mostly, I find the MSD is similar to the 009, but I had a couple bad Petronix Ignitors and made the switch.

The rust is a common issue, but just clean it up and you'll be fine.  Mine is always rusty looking!

[Lanny]

Try running one light silver and one light blue spring. You want the advance in as quickly as possible on most HP VW engines. 32 degrees total. The corrosion issue was fixed 4-5 years ago with the internals getting cad plating at the factory. Older units are raw cast iron. MSD problems are usually attributed to improper/lazy wiring. The primary black and red wires must go directly to the battery, including the ground.