Author Topic: Electric Blue, I Am Blue, Man! (Read 3880 times)

xcasper · « **on:** August 24, 2006, 01:41:21 AM »

Hi. I am xcasper. I have a 74 ghia. You might remember my posts. I am having electrical problems. ?The mechanic I have here is nice, but doesn't seem to have the answer. All my lights and stuff seem to work, but my car doesn't.

- Car not start. Click Click. On my mechanics advice, I replaced my battery last week, ( it fixed it!) then broke again. So, then I went back a couple days ago, and he put a direct lead on my starter to the battery - seemed to think I could use it to hotwire the starter directly. (The car was clicking when I turned the key again) It worked for a day. Then I wen t back to him today, when his hotwire didn't work today,( I got a push start at the paint store.) He listened for a while, and said my starter was toast. So I called Rustybus to see if he had a good starter I could buy. He did, so I thought my fears were laid to rest. I took the ghia to work, and parked on a hill, thinking to get the starter tommorrow. But when I push started it, it would hardly go, and when I checked the headlights they were dim, dim dim. So dim in fact that I had to creep home the 4 miles down a very dark mountain road. Then I had to switch off my headlights entirely, or the beasty wouldn't run at all. That last mile was a long one man. Wow! So my question is, what the *&(*&* do you think it is? Alternator? Could I just be miswired? I mean the car is acting like the battery is dead again, and shouldn't an alternator put out enough juice to fire up the headlights even if the battery is kaput? And I don't see what good replacing the starter will do me if there isn't any juice. Anyway, sorry to bug you guys, but you seemed to know your AC from your DC. Any advice on where to go to sort this cheesebox out here on the lower mainland? Preferable somewhere that won't skin me alive, I have already paid 2 different mechanics actual money ( two hundreds and counting) to tell me they knew what was wrong with this buggy when I really think they had no clue at all. (They haven't actually fixed anything) Thanks and Cheers from Maple Ridge, BC. Steve. :wacko:

BUSDADDY · « **Reply #1 on:** August 24, 2006, 06:03:45 AM »

I'm guessing these guys did voltage checks before telling you to buy batteries and starters, at least I hope they did. Sounds like your generator/alternator is feeling lazy, you don't mention if the charge light comes on at all or when running or when key on but not running. You might just need a new voltage regulator but first you need to determine if you have a generator or alternator and if it's an external or internal reulator. If it's external take the regulator to an automotive electric shop and have it checked. If it's ok then change the alt/gen.

For now you might consider trickle charging the car at night (don't leave it on high charge you'll cook your new battery) and a solar charger for when it's parked at work. As long as there isn't much headlight use it'll get you around.

egspot · « **Reply #2 on:** August 24, 2006, 06:13:50 AM »

I am not a mechanic, but I have had my share of problems.

So you got a new starter? And your battery checks OK?

With the car off, disconect your radio and anything else that may use juice while of (doors close / inside light off.)

Clean your cables and terminals in the battery compartment.

Now take the neg cable of the battery and use a volt metter bet ween battery and cable. If it registers current, you may have a short draining your battery.

Then there something called selenoid on something like that attached to the starter (I think it is what makes it kick.) If you could take the starter out and have it checked at \"Edmon Starters\" or another place they could tell you if something wrong.

This are the first thing I would check before spending $$$$$. None of us need to pay for a mechanic's education. It should not be try & err when you are paying for. We can all install new parts, one after the other untill it works.

my 2 cents

Bruce · « **Reply #3 on:** August 24, 2006, 11:06:59 AM »

Adding to what emillio said, does your battery's ground strap attach at the base of the alternator stand? If so, remove it and scrape away the metal of the stand until it is shiny. Also clean the strap with a wire brush to ensure good contact.
IINM, there should also be a ground strap on the gearbox. Raise the rear and support it on jackstands. Look at the top of the left frame horn, about 4-6\" forward of the axle. There should be a flat copper braided strap going from the trans to a M8 stud on the frame horn. Remove and clean all contact surfaces. After re-assembly, spray the ends with WD-40 to prevent corrosion.
Whenever you have the starter off, take some sandpaper to the ring lug terminal too.
Do you have a volt meter? If not, I recommend you get one. With the engine running, measure the voltage present at the terminal on the alternator with the big fat red wire. Then rev the engine to at least 3000 rpm and take a reading. Post these results.

xcasper · « **Reply #4 on:** August 25, 2006, 08:07:24 AM »

Thank you for the help, Bruce, Busdaddy and eggy. Here is an update! Last night I was driving by my new neighbor, Bob, and asked to borrow a battery charger. Turns out he has lots of neat car stuff. Ok, anyhow, I hooked his charger up for 45 minutes (The battery charged at 11, Bob says that means the battery was pretty dead.) so the ghia starts up with the key vrooom vrooom. The headlights are bright. Bob says it is an alternator all right, and it is an external voltage regulator, a little black box stuck over on the firewall behind the battery with three wires coming out of it. Anyways, I took the charger back in my Ghia and Bob checked out the wiring. (It was dark by this time, good thing my lights were working!) We used his new 15 million power flashlight (Holy *hit!) and it turns out the wires on top of the Alternator are loose. That is to say, the nut was not even finger tight, the wires were just floating around. So he cleaned them up and tightened the assembly. Bob said that it might be my problem solved, but maybe not. So I guess I can just drive it and see if the battery goes dead again, then I will know if I still have the problem! I am off to go paint my friends house today, kind of paying back a favor, so I will have to wait till I have some more free time to clean all the other leads Bruce. I will keep you all in the know. Thank you so much for your replies. -Steve-

BUSDADDY · « **Reply #5 on:** August 25, 2006, 11:08:37 AM »

Sounds like it could be a cheap, simple fix, cool. If you can get your hands on a volt meter see if it's running 14 volts with the engine running, should be 12 or less with the engine off.

If you can't get a volt meter turn on the headlights with the engine idling and listen for a very slight drop in rpm, if it's charging the added load on the alternator should slow it down a hair. Also listen to the alternator itself, it should make a faint whining noise when charging.

xcasper · « **Reply #6 on:** August 26, 2006, 09:57:04 PM »

BusDaddy you are great. I will try to get to Canadian Tire asap for a Voltage guage. Oh, and I checked out my voltage regulator at an electric shop, they said it is working will keep you updated. Super Duper help, thanks again Hazelmere! -S- P.S. By the way, the positive lead on the gauge goes to a big fat red wire? And the neg to the frame? zzzzzz I am asleep, also, the electric light never comes on. Maybe it is the bulb? Or the wiring I suppose.....

BUSDADDY · « **Reply #7 on:** August 27, 2006, 07:40:41 AM »

The voltmeter goes on the battery.

Check the idiot bulb in your speedo, some alternator systems need a functioning bulb before they work.

xcasper · « **Reply #8 on:** August 28, 2006, 01:19:41 PM »

Hello to Busdaddy, Bruce and egspot. I have been driving the ghia for 2 days without incident. The voltmeter now reads 13 when the car isn't running.( It is dead steady) I don't know why it isn't 12 or less? It reads between 13.7 and 14.2 when the car is idleling. When I take the revs up, it reads between 14.8 and 15.2, the readings seem to fluctuate. It's only a cheap voltmeter, so maybe that is why it is moving around? Tell me it is so. So do I need a new alternator? Maybe it's on it's way out? The voltage regulator checked out fine at the automotive shop. Thanks, Steve.

BUSDADDY · « **Reply #9 on:** August 28, 2006, 05:02:29 PM »

Sounds like it's working fine. Might want to check all your connections and grounds, something wigglin or dirty could make for the jumpy needle.

Also look into that dash light, it not only tells you when things stop charging but also gives you a clue if your fan belt breaks and your cooling system stops. And that's a good thing to know.

Bruce · « **Reply #10 on:** August 29, 2006, 02:28:26 AM »

Quote

... It reads between 13.7 and 14.2 when the car is idleling. When I take the revs up, it reads between 14.8 and 15.2, the readings seem to fluctuate. .....

I may be wrong on this, but I think 15.2 is too high. If you rev it higher, does the voltage go even higher than 15.2?

For comparison, go over to your watercooled bellybutton daily driver and do the same voltage measurements on it.

Just found this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic...ic.php?t=191063

epic3 · « **Reply #11 on:** August 29, 2006, 09:06:52 PM »

15.2 is a bit high could be the regulator needs some adjustments or a better ground

Bruce · « **Reply #12 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:21:25 AM »

I tested my Mexican Beetle last night. At idle, the voltage was fluctuating between 13.99V, and 14.00V. When I rev'd it up, the voltage dropped to 13.95V.
At the same time, my neighbour had the hood up on his Dodge Neon and the engine idling. So I went over and measured it. At idle, it was at 14.05V.

This tells me your voltage regulator is not doing it's job. It may be due to bad continuity or bad grounding. Or it may be defective.

epic3 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 31, 2006, 01:36:19 PM »

most likely a weak ground for the regulator

Bruce · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2006, 12:27:57 AM »

Exactly what I think.